RJ Gives Some Much Needed Advice To Discovery PUA, aka Shaun-Michael Adams of Venusian Arts..And CC’s Chris Odom, aka Lovedrop

Dear Fraudhaters,

I had another exchange the other day with Discovery PUA, aka bankrupt Shaun-Michael Adams, bullying bastard from Venusian Arts.

Some back round before I share:   Someone sent me an email Discovery had sent to his coaches about drug use during bootcamps.  I won’t publish it because, as I wrote to Discovery, I think email between a company official and his work force ought to be private.

I’m not making any legal statement here; I’m just saying MY standard for what should be kept private.

Anyway I wrote him telling him I wouldn’t use it and he wrote me back with some flowerly, lie-ridden explanation of how he was such a great guy and how the student asking for a refund was in the wrong.

Here is what I wrote him. It’s wise and golden advice, which pretty much guarantees he and Odom and the rest of the Venusian Arts crew will arrogantly and ignorantly ignore it.

On Aug 21, 2011, at 11:32 AM, Discovery wrote:

Hi Paul,

All he has to do is stop the hate campaign, admit the inaccuracies, and false statements and i will push for the discussed refund before the end of the month. Simple.

Shaun,

I really don’t have much time for this. PUAFRAUD is, at best, a hobby for me, although one I feel strongly about.

I’ve followed the emails as posted and it does look to me like you’ve jerked him around with promises of refunds from VA that never materialized.

But in any case, let me offer a suggestion: you guys go first.

Do it because you should not hold on to money if the customer isn’t satisfied, END OF STORY.

It doesn’t matter how the customer has expressed their dissatisfaction or what they’ve said or done.

No one in the public who is watching this spreading and growing story is going to care about that and they are probably saying “Fuck it..i’d do the same thing to the dirty bastards”.

Right now, you guys have a growing public image problem. How much business will this cost you? Is it worth that to stand on ceremony and expect a pissed off customer to go first and apologize?

(And where does that leave him if  he does as you ask first, and you guys still refuse a refund? He will look  like a totally lying crank with NO claim to begin with and you guys get to keep his money AND come out smelling like roses. Why SHOULD he trust you?  I surely woudn’t)

If you want to “win/win” then I suggest that YOU guys “win” when you refund the money NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES, because it’s smart policy and it makes you look good.

My final thought: I’ve been in business since 1988, full time since 1991. Lots of people don’t like me and I’m very controversial to say the least.  But no one-not ONE PERSON-on any board, site etc has ever accused me even so much as ONCE of not giving a refund.

Now why do you think that is?  Surely at least one person in all that time would have spoken up.

It’s because my policy is: always give a refund and avoid the fucking problem.   If the person is even marginally close to the refund period-say they ask for a refund in 120 days rather than 90 days fucking give them the goddamn refund.

I learned this from a mentor, Gary Halbert, who said, “Always give refunds. First and foremost and top priority. All it takes is ONE person to complain to a regulator, DA, prosecutor, postal inspector when one of those guys is having a bad day, and your entire business could be fucked”.

Never forgot those words from 1988.

Once you refund his money first, YOU have the high ground. People will then listen to your side of the story and any damage done to your rep will be rendered null and void.   You can even say something like, “We’ve issued a refund in full to Chris as we stand by our desire and commitment to offer value and, frankly, if someone isn’t happy for whatever reason, we don’t WANT their money. We are sorry for any delay or misunderstanding that occured.”

(By the way, if I can’t help someone and they aren’t happy, I really DON’T want their money, but that’s how **I** roll.)

Or maybe you guys don’t have the money-it’s gone up a bunch of noses with the Bolivian marching powder or spent in other ways.  The bankruptcy suggests you’ve got some issues on handling finances.   Not my business.)

But I say: it’s your responsibility and to your advantage to give the guy his money back and count it as a lesson learned.

RJ

P.S. Another thing I learned: don’t fuck with people thinking they are weak and won’t push for their money back.  You might think people are sheep and just take their lumps, but every once in a while a sheep dog will rise up and fight back. I’ve done this many times with bullies who found out that their usual views of people just meekly accepting getting ripped off were quite wrong in my case, and I relished teaching them the 11th Commandment: Thou shalt not get away with it.

You should look at where your business could be very vulnerable and don’t fuck with anyone if you aren’t legally crossing all of your t’s and dotting all of your i’s.  Supposing a student who feels burned happens to work for the IRS.  Do you properly pay all of your coaches as employees with all the payroll withholding?   Are you declaring them independent contractors when, by IRS rules, they are really employees?

It would only take one pissed off IRS employee or one student with a dear friend who is to start a nasty investigation.  And even if you “win” you’ve lost the money and time and focus dealing with it.

My sense/intuition is that you guys are sloppy about such stuff(and aren’t the only company who is).  So be careful.   You NEVER know who you are fucking with. Don’t fuck with anyone if your ducks aren’t totally lined up.

PPS You won’t give the money back because you don’t want me to win? You gotta be fucking kidding me….seriously….that’s  just bush league.

A win win was always wanted.

Thank you for being considerate to email me on this.

Shaun

Sent from my iPhone

On 21 Aug 2011, at 18:15, <sandworm77@ca.rr.com> wrote:

Shaun,

If  I was the bastard some are urging  me to be, I’d use this unedited.

However, I can actually see a somewhat positive intent in what you are doing here, so I won’t. And this is an email you sent to your team and I am of mixed feelings about exposing that kind of communication.    So you are going to get a pass from me, at least partially. Maybe entirely.

However…how about setting a NO drug use policy? If you really wanted a professional organization as opposed to merely giving the APPEARANCE of one, why not set a “no coke” policy and then drug test?

Or do you believe it’s a legit part of the lifestyle and what you use yourself?

Look: give the fucking refund already and stop being a stubborn idiot.

You are generating heat that isn’t worth it.

Do the right thing INSTEAD OF THE APPEARANCE OF THE RIGHT THING.

RJ

From: shaun@synergy-training.com

Subject: Ross Jeffries and puafraud.com

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 10:19:57 +0000

CC: prophet@venusianarts.comds23@hotmail.co.ukmichaelangelo.monteleone@gmail.com; To: lovedrop@gmail.commatador@venusianarts.comattractionmagic@gmail.com

Hey Guys,

further on the RJ and PuaFraud.com

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60 Responses to RJ Gives Some Much Needed Advice To Discovery PUA, aka Shaun-Michael Adams of Venusian Arts..And CC’s Chris Odom, aka Lovedrop

  1. PUA Crime says:

    So typical of the sleaze that mystery has let himself surrounded by.

    Did you notice the quote “i will push for the discussed refund before the end of the month”?

    He won’t actually give the refund. He’ll “push for” it. And he’ll do that pushing before the end of the month. Great guy.

    Of course that only happens AFTER the guy they fucked over completely kills his leverage and any power he had by being forced to lie about being screwed over in the first place. I’ll bet dollars to donuts that the first thing those sleazebags do when they guy “admits” that his story wasn’t true is say “cool, we don’t have to give him a refund then…more money to spend on coke while we ignore students”

    • HappyLittleBoy says:

      Mystery hasn’t let himself be surrounded by the sleaze. He IS the sleaze. He has knowledge of every single scummy thing Discovery has done and approves of it, including the threats. He might use Lovedrop and Discovery like a cat’s paw while he remains “above it”, but he’s the creator and maintainer of it all.

      I’ve never worked in a company where a boss would have acted like Mystery. Discovery would have been instantly fired in any legitimate business, because a liar like him will only drag everybody down with him.

  2. VA Watchdog says:

    RJ you got to try harder. Until they start copying Chris’s uncle on the emails you’re not scaring them enough :P

  3. HappyLittleBoy says:

    Very well said Ross. Very well said. It really is wise advise.

    You’re absolutely right that it only takes one pissed off customer to totally destroy a company. Most students forgive the PU companies their transgressions. They either assume they’re following the letter of the law, or trust that if they’re not happy they’ll get a refund just like if they were returning a faulty TV.

    What we’re finding is that they haven’t dotted their i’s or crossed their t’s very well at all. After coming across Discovery’s bankruptcy information I found some information that relates to legislation that I deal with in my area of work that could seriously affect their ability to do business in Europe if they don’t hire a local lawyer and make certain changes first.

    In the past these gray legal areas and country boundaries were just ignored by students because its just assumed that everything will go well. If something went wrong and a student was unhappy they got paid off and there was no fuss. So no complaints made. No bad press. No government bodies informed. No-one asking about legal technicalities.

    No heat.

    By acting this way, I think they’ve put the fear of god into any potential customers, and lost shit loads of future income. I think they’ve pissed off enough people that complaints are guaranteed, and attention from government agencies now almost certain.

    I don’t think they have a bright future. They’ve been sloppy, arrogant, dishonest, rude, stupid and have pissed off too many people. They’ve underestimated people’s knowledge of the law, our ability to dig up dirt, and our willingness to make it public for the protection of people everywhere.

    • Ross Jeffries says:

      @Happy Oh, VA isn’t the first of their kind I’ve dealt with. There have been soooo many others. And they never-and I mean NEVER-dot their “i’s and cross their “t’s.

      Carmine Baffa, Kenrick Cleveland, R. Don Steele. And what VA and the rest of them have to ask themselves is: what happened to them?

      “Hello…I’m the Doctor. Basically….run!”…Doctor Who

      • Shaun Michael Adams says:

        In the the interest of balance and fairness I can confirm for a fact that Gymqueen AKA Discovery AKA Shaun George Michael Adams is NOT a drug user. He is too concerned about his body ( in a very homoerotic way ). After all a bankrupt 40 something is going to have to work very hard for a very long time to support themselves.

        However I have photographic proof of certain other people… I will not release these photos as I believe that the use of certain substances legal or otherwise is their own personal choice and should remain that way.

        Great to see Ross kicking ass! PUA fraud 100 – douchebag losers 0.

        PS if you’re reading this which I know you are Chris bro I feel sorry for your ex wife and kids. But it’s pretty clear now why they left you. I thought it was money problems but it’s really just because you are a born loser.

        • Bogart says:

          Ross, what’s Mystery’s email? I know it won’t do a damn bit of good but I want to email him and tell him what I think

          • Ross Jeffries says:

            @Bogart My guess is attractionmagic@gmail.com but I’m not sure.

          • Shaun Michael Adams says:

            Yep that’s his e-mail alright. If I was an absolute bastard I would give our his personal phone number too. Lucky for him I don’t need to stoop to their (VA’s) level.

          • Ross Jeffries says:

            @Shaun

            And I’d delete and put all your posts on serious watch/moderate mode. There’s a line I won’t have crossed here and harrassment is one of them.

        • Ross Jeffries says:

          @Shaun

          Thanks. This blog is kicking ass and we aren’t even a year old, do virtually NO promotion and generate NO revenue! And it’s only a hobby!

  4. Shaun Michael Adams says:

    Clarification. The Chris I was referring to was Chris Odom.

  5. Saber says:

    Wow, an all time low for the Venusian losers! There’s an old and wise saying that still rings true today–the apple doesn’t fall too far from the tree. If Mystery is condoning this behaviour from his senior officer, he’s no different. If this were a legitimate public corporation, not only should Chris get all his money back, but this punk “Discovery” should be fired on the spot. In fact, they should all be thrown in same prison cell where they can enjoy only raping each other instead of the public.

    I’ve got to give props to Ross for setting by example in the industry and ex-communicating one of his former star instructors, Bishop, when Ross heard Bishop was ripping off his customers.

    Mystery, do not pass go. You need to go to jail with the rest of your scumbag bandits. You’re as culpable as the rest for condoning it.

    ps. Ross I love the Dr. Who quote. Aliens threaten to blow up the planet if they don’t get what they want. The doctor confronts them on the roof, “Did you know this is a class M protected planet that you’ve threatened to blow up? Do you know who I am? Hello, I’m the doctor. Basically, run.” And the aliens race out of the galaxy at light speed.

  6. SyndicateExposed says:

    Seriously Ross… Your the fucking man!

    You’re a pretty cool 50 year old guy and this is coming from someone that’s 21.

  7. HappyLittleBoy says:

    Fake-SMA,

    You seem like you have a lot of insider knowledge. Unless you’re bound by legal agreements then don’t hold back. Forget worrying about confidentiality with a bunch of thugs and liars. It’s not immoral to expose immoral behaviour. It’s immoral to sit back and let it happen again. Do the right thing and tell more people about it. If coaches are teaching “No drugs or alcohol during game” then it is relevant if you have pictures of them taking drugs. If their personal lives are in a mess that’s important information too.

    This student would never have gotten into the situation he’s in if everybody who had dirt on VA were vocal about it in the first place. In the same way that this exposure about Discovery has encouraged people like yourself to come forward. Anything you have to say might encourage more. So consider doing it here, or over at PUA hate please.

    • Ross Jeffries says:

      @Happy

      Nope, not on this blog. That’s crossing a line and I won’t allow it. Let him put it on PUA Hate

    • Shaun Michael Adams says:

      @ Happy… like I said in my post I truly believe that the substances people ingest are their own business. I understand where you’re coming from but unlike these guys I have a sense of honor and when I give my word I keep it.

      If the knowledge that I possess is relevant to a topic here I will release that information.

      For the record Discovery DOES NOT DO DRUGS. I have not seen the e-mail in question so I cannot comment on something I don’t know about.

      Believe me I tried to talk some of the guys out of signing up for the VA instructor program. Maybe some listened others obviously didn’t. My biggest problem with the whole scheme was that ANYONE with cash or credit could sign up for the program. Didn’t matter if they were the next Cassanova or a chode virgin.

      Something that should be made public is that ANY bad review or dissent from their ideology that they can’t turn around is swiftly deleted by their mod Azazels “Joseph Goebbels” Wolf. This guy is truly a sad and pathetic human being.

      What VA teach is useful for giving the illusion of success with women but when it comes to actually GETTING LAID these guys and their teachings just don’t cut it.

      Ever since I dropped 95% of their stupid ideas I had great success. Bathroom BJ’s, 10 minute day game lays etc I mean FFS 7 hours? Who made that dumb ass, ignorant and damaging rule. Ok stop me from bragging lol!

      VA is a joke. Unfortunately the foolish, unwary and the desperate cling to the hope that somehow these guys are their saviors but are in fact truly the devil in disguise. Wasting the poor students time and money with little to no hope of success. Even pumping them up and telling the poor guy that what he is doing is working when it isn’t.

      Maybe the “instructors” MIGHT be able to get the job done but they can’t teach to save their lives. And after all isn’t that what matters? Helping the student? Who gives a fuck about if a guy is good at getting women into bed? If they can’t TEACH you how they don’t deserve a penny.

      • Shaun Michael Adams says:

        @ Ross I would expect you to delete/moderate any inappropriate posts too.

        I’m not here to harass anyone not even Mehow.

        The truth is the most powerful tool. All I want is for people to know the facts.

        Again kudos to you for watching out for the vulnerable and seeking the truth. I’ve never met you and maybe never will. But I can see that you are a genuinely compassionate human being. A rare quality to find these days and particularly in this industry.

        • Pissant says:

          I think the issue of their coaches being high out of their mind while “teaching” is a red herring. Ross has made it clear that this blog isn’t about terrible products and terrible programs. This isn’t new information anyway, they were high with powder on their face and noses running like the amazon river on their own “Masterpiece” product.

          The issue here is one of bullying, threats of physical violence, fraud, and deception.

      • HappyLittleBoy says:

        “For the record Discovery DOES NOT DO DRUGS.”

        Something tells me he might start this week, Heheheheh.

  8. Pissant says:

    Meh. I know those guys and none of them are worried about this. They’re sitting around laughing while they rake it in. The best way to understand them is that they are schoolyard bullies. They prey on anyone they think is weaker than them and the the only thing they respond to is strength.

    • HappyLittleBoy says:

      Time for them to get real jobs, because Discovery is going to bring that company to its knees.

      • Pissant says:

        As long as people believe what Mystery’s business partner “journalist” Neil Strauss wrote about him in the Game and as long as people are willing to pay $2000 for 20-minute DVDs of the guys hanging out in a shitty house coked out of their mind talking about game and as long as they are willing to do that AND DEFEND THE WORK because they have to “support Mystery”, then I don’t think VA is going to its knees or anywhere else.

        • Shaun Michael Adams says:

          They are definitely not raking it in. Don’t believe a word they say. After all these guys are professional liars.

          Their fan base gets smaller by the day. Bootcamps get delayed or cancelled frequently. Discovery’s bankruptcy papers have been put up for the world to see. Their old business partners pass them by in terms of fame and quality of teaching.

          If you speak to Erik ask him what he thinks of Brad P. If he doesn’t “snip and stack” you can see the rage building inside even if he tries to hide it. Actually I take that back. If you see them RUN! As fast as you can in the opposite direction.

    • Saber says:

      To Pissant,

      I bet you they are worried. I typed “Discovery Shaun Adams” into google and on the first page the very first link is puafraud exposing him. Try it yourself. The Internet is how Discovery “discovers” who his new victims are, so he ain’t laughing anymore. Then again, he’s probably too stupid to google his own name and realize how much of an impact his scumbag behaviour will hurt him.

  9. worovme says:

    What’s the beef between Misery and Brad P?

    • Shaun Michael Adams says:

      That’s kinda gossipy and off topic so RJ delete this is you like.

      In a word Jealousy. Erik feels threatened by Brad.

      I don’t have a bad word to say about Brad. Cool guy. Seems genuine.

      • Jerry says:

        Still Venusian arts is known for VH1 and the game for new people.Until I heard RJ’s real voice.I had a different impression to RJ.

        podcasting tells me RJ has sense of humor.

        Guys who find this blog will have different impression to Venusian arts.

      • worovme says:

        Yeah Mystery makes a great chunk of his income from JVs: Shawna’s 2 Girls Teach Sex, Mehow’s 10SSA, Tommy J Banks Inner Sanctum.

        I remember Brad P said at a PUA Summit onstage (I’m paraphrasing), “No media, no interviews, no joint ventures. I want nothing to do with them. I only want results and I want my student to leave a better person. It’s a bad business model but I don’t care. So don’t pitch to me because I was pitched 5 times for a joint venture or another in the last half hour. That’s why I don’t like coming here.”

        And we all know Mystery doesn’t take rejection too kindly…

        • Jerry says:

          Mystery wants attention.He is a stage performer.I think magician is his profession not a teacher or coach.Since he has problem needs to be cure.There are many crazy performers musician,painter,actors etc.But they are not teacher.

          well,Ross is funny guy,he can be on stage as a comedian but he also has good quality as a teacher.SMA said he can tell compassion on his report.This is important quality.

          He does not promote his products here.

          I think pay to become instructors is like a pyramid scheme.

    • Pissant says:

      Have we ever heard anything from either of those two personally that there is a beef or evidence of a beef?

      • Shaun Michael Adams says:

        If you know them ask him yourself.

        I was there when someone else asked him. About two feet away. No beef. Just envy, rivalry and bitterness on Eriks side.

        • Pissant says:

          I don’t, that’s why I was asking you. Is Mehow and Neil Strauss the only PUAs who the guy isn’t jealous of?

          • worovme says:

            We know he respects Neil that’s why they don’t work together. His opinion of Mehow, on the other hand, is that he sucks – that’s why he can work with him.

          • Fuckfuck says:

            Chris Odom has a man-crush on Mehow, that’s why they work together.

            Neil Strauss is too smart to work with Mystery again. Then again, anyone who has ever worked with Mystery is too smart to work with him again.

  10. Neil says:

    This blog reminds me of the quote, “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” …. Keep doing good things RJ!!!

    • Shaun Michael Adams says:

      @ worovme. Erik doesn’t respect Neil. He sees him as useful. Kind of like Santas little elf.

      Not spamming but if you want some home truths on Erik and Neil have a look at http://www.howtopickupgirlslies.com

      • worovme says:

        (Yeah this topic is getting out of hand lol.)

        I’ve pretty much came to the same conclusions as that site (thanks for sharing) on my own but I wouldn’t get too stuck dwelling on these “gurus” otherwise you become like Sinn, ripping on Neil because he has nothing better to do. (The site forgot to mention that Style’s Best PUA in the World status was done by… Thundercat.)

        But yeah Mystery “uses” Neil. It strikes me more as a business relationship, a win-win sort of thing because isn’t that what friends are for? kind of logic.

        And what matters most to them is status, which has admittedly f’ed me in the head until I realized they were f’ed in the head even more.

  11. Jerry says:

    >>worovme

    I agree with your post.They were inter-dependent relationship.

    I think Ross did it right,come to this issue on spot light.

    SMA

    Lovedrop story is sad.He somebody did that to me.I go really crazy.If I were lovedrop I won’t see Mystery’s face ever!!!

    Speaking of drunk joke,if they really did it.I think they supposedly deported to somewhere.I think Mystery was Canadian,if the book Game was correct.I wonder how could he get green card or citizenship.

    Even tourists,US suppose to be tough on drug though.Immigration officer ask about job when he took interview,if he have green card or citizenship.Officer asks ‘Did you do promiscuous activities since you move to the United States?’Officer also question about drug too.

    I think drag story is just joke.If that true,Mystery can’t be in the US.

    • worovme says:

      Stealing your friend’s girl is lame. Someone said to me, “As soon as I find out that my bro wants this girl she becomes a sister to me.” Now that is something to emulate. Unlike VA. Lovedrop gets off by watching Mystery steal their students’ girls.

    • Fuckfuck says:

      Mystery just travels on a tourist visa illegally. If you’re concerned about this report this with his full name Erik von Markovik and his date of birth September 24, 1971 to US Immigration 1-866-DHS-2-ICE.

      He emailed his list that he is going to be teaching professionally in Las Vegas in November, so he’ll probably be traveling around then.

      • Jerry says:

        I just wondered PUA company job gives him green card.If he have it through his business I just wondered how did he explained his job to immigration officer.
        If he did not have green card.how does he pay income tax???Does he have tax ID like a Mexican guys sneaked into this country?

        So he can’t be partner of VA,if your story is right.It seems like Lovedrop and Matador’s partnership.You can’t form partnership with foreigner.

        Oh,how about his kids?I heard he has kids here.So he stays here as a parent of American???It sounds like some illegal have kids here.

        But he was on TV,they does background check.How come He was on TV,if he was illegal immigrant?He can’t have bank account etc.I can’t buy this story.

        Adam Lyons married an American woman.He is definitely legal.

        He has been illegal and on Tv and practice business??

        • worovme says:

          Well Gordon Ramsey (Scottish) had like 3 American tv shows. And some English rockers have green cards and “work” here without problems.

        • Suck my balls says:

          a non-US citizen can be a business owner of a US business. VA is structured as an LLC (limited liability company) and that part is perfectly legal. So is having a bank account in the US without being a US citizen.

          Erik has gotten shoved aside in venusian arts and only owns 33% of the company now! Chris Odom and his cronies own the other 67%

          What is NOT legal is to form a company in the US and then go to the US on a tourist visa and perform work in the US. That is where Mystery and Discovery and others are breaking the law. If enough people complain, they’ll be refused entry into the country. That seems like a worthwhile goal to me.

          • Ross Jeffries says:

            @Suck My Balls I’m not familiar enough with these laws to comment. I think there is some kind of “key man” provision where a person can get a special work visa if it can be shown they are vital to a US based company’s business. i really don’t know and in any case, it doesn’t address the real issues.

          • Monsignor says:

            I think you’re thinking of key man insurance. Similar visa types exist but they’re called something else

            I agree it’s not the main issue but it is another way to fight back

  12. Jerry says:

    Mystery should be in hospital not teach students.He needs to treat his problem before teaching students.It is so hard to deal with bipolar people.

    If that post is right,since 5 years ago Mystery’s technique has not changed.Maybe it is perfect skill for him but many people wants to learn easier way.

    This topic is hot now.Discovery and Mystery has good relationship?

    The guy talk about leadership is not leader at all.

  13. Jerry says:

    So Chris Odom is the principal owner of Venusian arts.

    Their business is fraud to the US government,if Mystery and some does business as a tourists.I mean,something like once a year,he comes from Canada for convention,it is not big deal,I mean regular company does same stuff.But he traveled around the US since I don’t know more than 5 years without legal status???Fraud business to the US government.

    Let’s see Mehow is a Polish immigrant but now US citizen,AFC Adam is supposedly green card holder.

    If Mystery have facebook and write about his business trips in the US.It will be evidence of illegal work.But what if some guy used the Book Game as an evidence.Mystery may say to immigration officer this is 100 % fiction,I just traveled a lot?

    If somebody call about payroll or immigration for drug use they definitely work for you.If it is sure you should contact authorities.My friend e-mailed labor departments and immigration,when one of noisy neighbor was illegal.They reacted really quick though.If it is not sure you should not do it.Drug abuse deport is also happen by neighbors report.If they abide the law,they are fine but not they should not be in America.

    Seduction is one of the self help.RJ is the modern seduction of father.If you read the book,Mystery and Neil Strauss are hero and others are depicted as villains.

    People seek help from Mystery and time passed,This industry is filled with good and bad.Mystery did great contribution to seduction community but I feel his legacy is tarnishing now.He needs to go to hospital first and then come back or seek Magician career.Since there are some guys over pass him like Brad P,etc. RJ also did not stop one place and he also improves his teaching techniques.(this is my pure opinion not promoting anything,this site is his pure hobby)

    I believe there should be many different kind of service should exist,but only if they follow the law and good service and keep the promise to their client.

    If Venusian arts does not do refund.they should put the word no-refund for our service and products.Then it is customers choice.I believe here and PUA hate has some of true report from customers.Like a blue book for the car transaction.This BBs does not have any link to RJ’s company and products.

    If you talked customer service guy once.You can tell the company’s quality.There were some good company but I would not like to promote here.But as far as VA,the guy I talked had a strong British accent tried to sell hard.I have talked some other seduction company’s people they were not hard sell like this Brits accent guy.He keep saying life change experience many times but other company guys talked like a regular business person.I did not feel like a young door to door sales man pitch,like VA did.I am glad to not use their service and used other company’s service.I really thought they use hard sell to women too?I thought they were better communicator.The guy even talk to sell hard can’t sell themselves to women too.Maybe British accent sales guy has this trait but he represent company and called me.

    Dear,Seduction company people,your call to prospective customer is important.If you do hard push sell sales,we just turn off because it looks too desperate to us.

    We need a choice but bad thing should be reported like here or pua hate.Those company have second chance to improve.

  14. Jerry says:

    I just hope this former training coach got a refund from VA.If he got a refund,I think first mission is accomplished.I think Discovery should have acted quickly before this story become big.

    Becoming pick-up coach is something you pay money and get certificate like a chef,hair-dresser etc.It is not good idea to pay money and then become pick-up instructor.Instructors should be the guys who have already skills.

    Do they test like written test,pick up field test and teaching skill test???I want to be good with women but I do not want to be pick-up coach.

  15. Suck my balls says:

    Mystery and Chris Odom and Shaun Michael Adams run the exact same “pay us to become an instructor, no questions asked” scam that Mehow does.

    And then they charge thousands of dollars to new guys to learn from these “masters” whose only qualification is being rich and gullible. VA pitched me on a bootcamp with some guy called “Hawaii” a couple years ago and when I looked him up I found out the guy’s only qualification was that he traveled with Mystery and carried the guy’s bags. Oh, and he was really proud that he had been to every buffet in Las Vegas. Seriously.

    • Shaun Michael Adams says:

      Hawaii- nice guy. Can’t get laid to save his life.

      PUA instructor programs are just as you Sam SMB. A pyramid scam.

      • Jerry says:

        Have you met Hawaii in person??

        Shaun Michael Adams,you really know VA people,I bet you used to work with them.If you have own business.Please do not do your business like VA,they are bad example.

        • Shaun Michael Adams says:

          I’ve met Hawaii.

          I know the VA crew very well.

          I have not and NEVER will work for or with them.

          • Suck my balls says:

            Hawaii is a nice guy, sure. He also has all the presence and pickup skills of a lukewarm puddle.

            It’s scandalous that someone could book a program with Mystery and have his “personal assistant” show up instead.

  16. Jerry says:

    Good.
    You know them inside out.Even if you are good.If you start to work with them.You may drawn to dark zone like some of VA people.

    I think you are pro but thank you sharing insider info here.

  17. ac says:

    one thing i have to say and ross you may not like it is ive seen pics of discovery and kezia on facebook so it does ask the question of their relationship

  18. Samwise Gamgee says:

    “But no one-not ONE PERSON-on any board, site etc has ever accused me even so much as ONCE of not giving a refund.”

    I never had to ask for a refund, but Yates messed up my order (this is going way back!) and mailed it to the wrong place since I’d moved and include a note with my money order indicating the change.

    Anyway, called and despite it being a physical product that actually costs them money to make and mail, got it sent to the correct address with one phone call.

    Just sayin’.

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