I had another exchange the other day with Discovery PUA, aka bankrupt Shaun-Michael Adams, bullying bastard from Venusian Arts.
Some back round before I share: Someone sent me an email Discovery had sent to his coaches about drug use during bootcamps. I won’t publish it because, as I wrote to Discovery, I think email between a company official and his work force ought to be private.
I’m not making any legal statement here; I’m just saying MY standard for what should be kept private.
Anyway I wrote him telling him I wouldn’t use it and he wrote me back with some flowerly, lie-ridden explanation of how he was such a great guy and how the student asking for a refund was in the wrong.
Here is what I wrote him. It’s wise and golden advice, which pretty much guarantees he and Odom and the rest of the Venusian Arts crew will arrogantly and ignorantly ignore it.
On Aug 21, 2011, at 11:32 AM, Discovery wrote:
All he has to do is stop the hate campaign, admit the inaccuracies, and false statements and i will push for the discussed refund before the end of the month. Simple.
I really don’t have much time for this. PUAFRAUD is, at best, a hobby for me, although one I feel strongly about.
I’ve followed the emails as posted and it does look to me like you’ve jerked him around with promises of refunds from VA that never materialized.
But in any case, let me offer a suggestion: you guys go first.
Do it because you should not hold on to money if the customer isn’t satisfied, END OF STORY.
It doesn’t matter how the customer has expressed their dissatisfaction or what they’ve said or done.
No one in the public who is watching this spreading and growing story is going to care about that and they are probably saying “Fuck it..i’d do the same thing to the dirty bastards”.
Right now, you guys have a growing public image problem. How much business will this cost you? Is it worth that to stand on ceremony and expect a pissed off customer to go first and apologize?
(And where does that leave him if he does as you ask first, and you guys still refuse a refund? He will look like a totally lying crank with NO claim to begin with and you guys get to keep his money AND come out smelling like roses. Why SHOULD he trust you? I surely woudn’t)
If you want to “win/win” then I suggest that YOU guys “win” when you refund the money NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES, because it’s smart policy and it makes you look good.
My final thought: I’ve been in business since 1988, full time since 1991. Lots of people don’t like me and I’m very controversial to say the least. But no one-not ONE PERSON-on any board, site etc has ever accused me even so much as ONCE of not giving a refund.
Now why do you think that is? Surely at least one person in all that time would have spoken up.
It’s because my policy is: always give a refund and avoid the fucking problem. If the person is even marginally close to the refund period-say they ask for a refund in 120 days rather than 90 days fucking give them the goddamn refund.
I learned this from a mentor, Gary Halbert, who said, “Always give refunds. First and foremost and top priority. All it takes is ONE person to complain to a regulator, DA, prosecutor, postal inspector when one of those guys is having a bad day, and your entire business could be fucked”.
Never forgot those words from 1988.
Once you refund his money first, YOU have the high ground. People will then listen to your side of the story and any damage done to your rep will be rendered null and void. You can even say something like, “We’ve issued a refund in full to Chris as we stand by our desire and commitment to offer value and, frankly, if someone isn’t happy for whatever reason, we don’t WANT their money. We are sorry for any delay or misunderstanding that occured.”
(By the way, if I can’t help someone and they aren’t happy, I really DON’T want their money, but that’s how **I** roll.)
Or maybe you guys don’t have the money-it’s gone up a bunch of noses with the Bolivian marching powder or spent in other ways. The bankruptcy suggests you’ve got some issues on handling finances. Not my business.)
But I say: it’s your responsibility and to your advantage to give the guy his money back and count it as a lesson learned.
P.S. Another thing I learned: don’t fuck with people thinking they are weak and won’t push for their money back. You might think people are sheep and just take their lumps, but every once in a while a sheep dog will rise up and fight back. I’ve done this many times with bullies who found out that their usual views of people just meekly accepting getting ripped off were quite wrong in my case, and I relished teaching them the 11th Commandment: Thou shalt not get away with it.
You should look at where your business could be very vulnerable and don’t fuck with anyone if you aren’t legally crossing all of your t’s and dotting all of your i’s. Supposing a student who feels burned happens to work for the IRS. Do you properly pay all of your coaches as employees with all the payroll withholding? Are you declaring them independent contractors when, by IRS rules, they are really employees?
It would only take one pissed off IRS employee or one student with a dear friend who is to start a nasty investigation. And even if you “win” you’ve lost the money and time and focus dealing with it.
My sense/intuition is that you guys are sloppy about such stuff(and aren’t the only company who is). So be careful. You NEVER know who you are fucking with. Don’t fuck with anyone if your ducks aren’t totally lined up.
PPS You won’t give the money back because you don’t want me to win? You gotta be fucking kidding me….seriously….that’s just bush league.
A win win was always wanted.
Thank you for being considerate to email me on this.
Sent from my iPhone
On 21 Aug 2011, at 18:15, <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
If I was the bastard some are urging me to be, I’d use this unedited.
However, I can actually see a somewhat positive intent in what you are doing here, so I won’t. And this is an email you sent to your team and I am of mixed feelings about exposing that kind of communication. So you are going to get a pass from me, at least partially. Maybe entirely.
However…how about setting a NO drug use policy? If you really wanted a professional organization as opposed to merely giving the APPEARANCE of one, why not set a “no coke” policy and then drug test?
Or do you believe it’s a legit part of the lifestyle and what you use yourself?
Look: give the fucking refund already and stop being a stubborn idiot.
You are generating heat that isn’t worth it.
Do the right thing INSTEAD OF THE APPEARANCE OF THE RIGHT THING.
Subject: Ross Jeffries and puafraud.com
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 10:19:57 +0000
further on the RJ and PuaFraud.com